MagicMethod Classroom Chat Log Thursday, May 15, 2008

[Maureen Sharib]

Maureen,
Good afternoon, I was unable to attend the phone sourcing chat today but I had used your tip from Tuesday and it has been great! (the tip of repeating the operator’s name and then saying my name and then “May I please speak with Mr. Smith?”) I have gotten past gatekeepers much more easily now and have had my name repeated back to me: “Please hold one minute Emily,” - it made me laugh. Thank you for all of your help and I'm looking forward to using this site to learn new approaches over the phone. It was one simple change that has already made a positive impact. I hope you have a great day! ~ Emily V

MagicMethod Classroom Chat Thursday, May15, 2008 Noon – 1p.m. (EST)
Best MagicMethod Remark of the Day"I'm always envisioning these individuals on the other end who are confused once the call ends...kinda funny." ~ Jamie Schwartz
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Robert Ossakow
Right, I am just looking for the names of the staff accountants only

Maureen Sharib
Let's go to Robert's question abt Accountants. I would call and ask for Finance - first I would look see who heads up Finance.

Jamie Schwartz
I'm wondering how you "end" the conversation once you confirm the contact info. It seems "sudden".

Maureen Sharib
We also do profiling ina ddition to our name gen service - once we identify the field (when the customer wants us to) we contact each on the list and then "pitch" (ever so gently) the opportunity - remember - these calls are being made to TRULY PASSIVE CANDIDATES. Jamie, there's nothing awkward about ending the call.

Jamie Schwartz
That's what I thought Maureen...but when you actually speak directly to the individual that your client would eventually like to recruit, it seems that the individual would be scratching his/her head wondering why you actually want to speak with him/her!

Maureen Sharib
I do very little talking - I am on a quest for information - I do alot of listening. I ask alot of questions.

Jamie Schwartz
I'm always envisioning these individuals on the other end who are confused once the call ends...kinda funny.

Maureen Sharib
I'm not following Jamie - when we do speak to the possible candidate we do so as follows:

Maureen Sharib
"This is Maureen Sharib and you've been specifically identified as someone XYZ believes can help take them to the next level - do you have a few minutes to share a little information w/ me?" Jamie - LOL sometimes they may be confused. I have a customer who calls me "Miss Confusion".

Maureen Sharib
Is anyone here familiar w/ Sun Tzu's Art of War? "The prime object of attacking with fire is to throw the enemy into confusion. If this effect is not produced, it means that the enemy is ready to receive us. Hence the necessity for caution."

Marina Epstein
I'm soucing for Program Managers experienced with Kernel who works in IT field. How would you approach it?

Maureen Sharib
Marina - what kind of companies?

Jamie Schwartz
Thanks Maureen...is XYZ your client's client?

Maureen Sharib
Yes or XYZ may be my customer.

Jamie Schwartz
Maureen - it seems (at least to me) that your "pitch" is very much like a recruiting call. "..help take them to the next level" No?

Maureen Sharib
And that's only one "pitch" there are many.

Jamie Schwartz
I would think a more vague script might be as (if not more) effective

Maureen Sharib
It is. But make the distinction. When I'm profiling I'm NOT sourcing. I've already done that. I know who everyone is before I start profiling them.

Brian
Do you have a certain process or strategy you use when soucing?

Maureen Sharib
Yes Brian. I tend to following habitual paths. Brian, have you read any of the previous chat logs?

Cecilia Smitha Jackson
do the same rules apply for sales calls Maureen? how do you source hiring managers, those decision makers?

Maureen Sharib
I would call and ask to be transferred to the dept that the hiring manager I wanted to speak with resided in - a good (and innocuous sounding) approach would be to ask to be trasferred to the Admin of the dept.

Jamie Schwartz
Maureen, I was wondering what you say when you get to the candidate during a sourcing call...

Maureen Sharib
Jamie - I think you think I profile as I source - I never do.

Maureen Sharib
Jamie - sometimes I DO get to the candidate in a sourcing call - I work him (or her) for more names. I like to think he doesn't know what I'm doing but I suspect soemtimes they do - one reason why they so willingly give me names!

Jamie Schwartz
Maureen - I understand; so when you are sourcing, you make every effort to NOT connect with the ultimate candidate?

Brian
Anyone-What do you find to be most effective and why? Job Boards, Social Networks, Hoovers, Phone Sourcing....

Maureen Sharib
Brian just asked a very good question - anyone?

Dhruv Chokshi
Brian, if someones' a newbie at the business I'd suggest a Job Board, but if you have been in the business for a while then definitely a Social Network will be a very good option...

Jamie Schwartz
Brian - I find that the internet is great as a starting point - it gives you enough info to get on the phone

Maureen Sharib
No I don't avoid the candidate - I just find that sourcing around him is more productive - remember - I go in (many times) for whole groups so I do not want to leave anyone behind.

Maureen Sharib
If I can keep it one or two removed from my target I am more effective, I believe. Other sourcers may disagree and have better luck sourcing directly WITH the candidate.

Jamie Schwartz
thanks Maureen

Jamie Schwartz
that's the "essence" of my question...sometimes a "sourcing" call goes too far, and I'm not sure how to avoid "getting caught" w/o revealing too much; I too suspect they know the real intent of the call

Maureen Sharib
Sometimes they do - I believe more and more people understand they have to take more responsibility for their own careers and becoming willingly outward facing to the world is one way they can do this

Maureen Sharib
Brian - you're in a nest of phone sourcers - you understand that right?

Maureen Sharib
So some of us are going to scream PHONE and some of us are going to offer other ways...

Bobby Ossakow
Hi. Has anyone here sourced for a staff accountant out of a large corporation? Thanks!

Jamie Schwartz
Ultimately, you MUST be on the phone to be productive, so I would suggest investing some time in your social networking sites, knowing that it is just one avenue

Maureen Sharib
I use social networks as stepping stones INTO companies - once I have a name - or two or three - I'm dangerous.

Maureen Sharib
There he is. Yes I just finished a job - we sourced out of Tier II firms - the ones right below the Big 4...

Jamie Schwartz
Robert - I haven't personally, but I would think you'd be able to generate enough leads via JigSaw, etc. to at least get you started on the phone...

Maureen Sharib
But you want out of a large corporation? Do you know what department they would reside in?

Jamie Schwartz
Robert - you mean in-house (not public) correct?

Ryan Haire
I think different levels of recruiting require different modes of research and sourcing---- Low/ entry level positions job boards are better/ Management/Directors require heavy research on phone/internet- Executive level searches hoovers and zoominfo--

Ryan Haire
but everything happens on the phone

Maureen Sharib
Here's a trick. Hoovers has the accounting firms listed that are used by many of the companies they have listed.

Brian
Maureen - Yes I understand y’all are phone sourcers but I assumed that yall have internet sourced as well and wanted to know y’alls opinion

Jamie Schwartz
Why not start with the Accounting Manager...get his direct dial (or extension) and go up and down a digit...accounting types are very structured (like their IT brethren) and most likely have allocated phone numbers (extensions) accordingly

Maureen Sharib
We understand - we're givin' it to you Brian

Maureen Sharib
Check to see which firm the company uses. Let's say it's Price Waterhouse. Call and ask to be transferred to the PriceWaterhouse office - they usually have some set-up internally - sometimes it's in a break room, or a conference room!

Maureen Sharib
Jamie offers a possible solution above.

Bobby Ossakow
These are great ideas.

Maureen Sharib
When a PWC employee answers, simply ask if they can transfer you to the accounting dept - many times they will w/out further ado.

Maureen Sharib
Anyone in acctounting will do. Even the Administrative Assistant. BEFORE they transfer you, though, pause them and ask, "Before you transfer me, can you tell me who you're transferring me to IN CASE I GET DISCONNECTED? And, oh, by the way, do you have his direct dial? That's great - thanks! Is he the Accting Manager?” This way you're extracting little bits of info at a time and before you know it you have a mother lode. Work the person on the line as long as you can as long as they'll put up w/ you and you'll "hear" them grow weary.

“In case I don't reach her, is there someone else I might try, JUST IN CASE?” See what I'm doing? I'm digging a big ditch with small shovelfuls. That PWC employee knows alot of the accountants in the company! AP knows them too - so does AR!

Bobby Hatcher
and then you're transferred...now what?

Maureen Sharib
Sometimes you can just ask for "accounting" and they'll transfer you. I find the less said the bigger the message is in this area. Transferred to one of the accountants? CHANCES ARE (and who doesn't agree with me?) I hit VoiceMail. BACK I go, or ON I go, to one of the other names the PWC employee gave me for just this reason.

I'll hit VM 8 out of 10 times. I use this as an excuse to extract additonal info abt the group..."I hit his VoiceMail - is there anyone else in his group I might try?" You do this 4-5 times and you can pretty much flush an entire group. It takes time though - that exercise to pick up maybe 20 might take a half hour. And it might take 5 hours. Depends on the day's "flow" and you sourcers know what I mean. So I rely on failure to get me to where I want to go.

Bobby Hatcher
You find the accounting managers name (which is your goal) and you are then trasferred to him. Then what? Keep sourcing?

Maureen Sharib
“Failure should be our teacher, not our undertaker. Failure is delay, not defeat. It is a temporary detour, not a dead end. Failure is something we can avoid only by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing.” ~Denis Waitley

Maureen Sharib
If I only needed the Manager's name I would go on to the next company and continue sourcing for more managers.

Bobby Hatcher
the accounting manager picks up. you keep sourcing?

Maureen Sharib
But if I needed the accountants under him I would rely on the fact that nobody's going to answer and I can use the VoiceMail complaint to gather more names - you see this?

Sharyn Yuloff
totally

Jamie Schwartz
makes a lot of sense

Maureen Sharib
If he picks up I would probably hang up - there is no mroe reason to talk to him if all I needed was his name. I am much more interested in what his VoiceMail can tell me - sometimes those VoiceMail messages offer a wealth of information.

Bobby Ossakow
yes

Cecilia Smitha Jackson
anyone there ?? i am not getting any scripts

Bobby Hatcher
I see

Maureen Sharib
Cecelia, refresh. It seems if you’r not participating you have to refresh periodically.

Maureen Sharib
…Vacation details, Cell phones, names that report to him, admin's names, etc. All info I vcan use when sourcing for more names.

Becky N Snowhite
This may be obvious to some, but do you block your phone number - caller ID etc.?

Maureen Sharib
Yes, I pay extra for Call Block on my phone lines.

Bobby Hatcher
do you ever source phone extensions?

Maureen Sharib
“I know Jim's on vacation until May 31, is there anyone else in his group you can point me to?” You don't get that kind of insider info unless you're listening for it and many times it can be found on their Voicemails!

Bobby Hatcher
you find the accounting managers name (which is your goal) you are then trasferred to him. then what? keep sourcing?

Bob Hatcher
you know the president's name but you want HIS ext and not the admin's…?

Maureen Sharib
All the time when I first started - I sourced phone extensions. I'd spend HOURS doing phone banks.

Jamie Schwartz
Maureen - that's kinda what I was asking earlier...if you finally get to the candidate (in this example Accounting Manager), you've exhausted that search at that company, so you simply "hang up" and move on to the next company, at some point talking to a live body is counter-productive

Maureen Sharib
If I don't need anything further - I may say “‘scuse me” or “pardon my call - I have the wrong number” but basically I get off the phone.

Maureen Sharib
MANY times Bob phone extensions of the uppityups are on the BEGINNING of a phone tree...

Maureen Sharib
Yes it can be counterproductive Jamie.

Bob Hatcher
any tricks to saving time on getting ext? or do u just grind it out?

Maureen Sharib
Lots of tricks on working phone banks – you have to practice and get to know them. Here's ONE. If it tells you to enter the FIRST FOUR letters of the last name - don't! Just enter ONE and see if it does not spill all the names starting with those letters that correspond to the number you push... NEVER push # even though most of them instruct you to - just be patient and wait - pushing # sometimes alerts the thing that you're not obeying instructions - that you're not pushing the number it's instructed you to push.

Bob Hatcher
yep - thats good. I have done that. a lot of times they are not searchable

Jamie Schwartz
Maureen - you mentioned that you feel we're in a recession worse than any you've seen in the last 50 years?

Bob Hatcher
they are not a "subscriber"

Marina Epstein
Sourcing for program manager in a large software company, How can i find out what department that individual works in?

Maureen Sharib
Probably Program Management, Marina. No kidding.

Lisa De Benedittis
Then it will say do you want to hear the NEXT name and it will either take you throught all the "R"'s or every single name in the directory!

Maureen Sharib
Lisa's right!

Jamie Schwartz
Marina - I would try going to the mail room...they know where everyone is!

Maureen Sharib
Mail rooms are VERY good and excellent sources for beginner sourcer s- I always forget abt them but I used them plenty in the early days!

Jamie Schwartz
in your blog posting this morning you talked about the recession…

Maureen Sharib
Yes, I feel this gas thing is really going to tank this economy and is doing so as we speak. We had an oil embargo in the seventies that kicked the economy's ass in the eighties w/ prime rates odf 24-25! Gold is at $900/ounce - that's unheard of! The old saw was that it was hard to make money on gold over $350. We have new days coming I believe. If you can work at home do it! Just my opine - don't let it freak you out.

Maureen Sharib
Remember, we'll do this again next Tuesday and on THURSDAY Shally Steckerl will be here to answer your questions about Internet sourcing

Victor
Maureen- What internet sourcing topics will Shally be discussing?

Maureen Sharib
Victor - I'm not sure but I imagine he'll take his cues from your questions...

Maureen Sharib
Marina - try that ask for Program Mgt - many times that is what the group will be called but first do some homework and try to find a few names in at the companies you're targeting. Come back and tell us how it went.

Maureen Sharib
The chat logs are down below the chat field - they're listed in "Blog Posts" - they have a yellow bubble that says "MagicTalk".

Victor
Maureen- Nice job as always...I'm enjoying your program and learning lots! Came off an assignment and am now looking for my next gig...and I do agree with you...work at home if that's an option...I've done 3 remote recruiting assignments and love this work

Maureen Sharib
I'm glad Victor and thank you!
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