Sourcing Chat - August 23, 2011

#SCHAT August 23, 2011

MaureenSharib
Hi everyone. I have a student with a problem.

(Full story - http://t.co/ZPTMHHy)

He can get gatekeepers to peruse their directories for him but their companies aren't using the same titles he is and they can't figure out the title he wants from his description of the role.

I told him to visit the company’s website to look at their job descriptions and titles.

Recruiting Animal
Are you saying that a company's site will tell you how they title their jobs? I don't agree

MaureenSharib
Some will. A company's jobs page will usually describe the job duties for each title they have listed.

Recruiting Animal
How many titles will usually be on the jobs page and what chance is there that your target title will be there - very little

MaureenSharib
Haha. Aren't you the contrarian. Okay, let's move on.

Tom Bolt
A company's career site not only gives titles but clues to talent within. If they are looking for people with specific skills it means that they probably have some of those people there already

Jason Lee Overbey
You can find tactical clues on the sites! Department headings, some names

Kleboe
Linkedin can show you lots of companies and titles that are all in the same arena

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MaureenSharib
Choosing the correct target companies is HALF THE BATTLE in sourcing because some companies are more appropriate than others

Jason Lee Overbey
Yeah. You don't want to source employees from McDonalds for 5 Star restaurant. Haw haw.

MaureenSharib
Right you are, Jason. It makes sense to source the employees of companies who require the skills you're looking for in your search

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MaureenSharib
Do any sourcers here feel companies are morphing their job titles lately? I do.

David Gillies
Yes, in IT. So how do you source when YOU don't even know what to ask for? Nobody inside the company knows what their own company is calling them either.

MaureenSharib
I check a company's web job page to see what their people in IT are doing. What they're being called.

Recruiting Animal
Yeah, I'm sure you'll find out there, Maureen.

MaureenSharib
Doug Gillies, do you check their Jobs page before you call?

Doug Gillies
I have been since you told me to start.

MaureenSharib
And how is it going? Are you surprised at all by what you're finding at Jobs pages?

Doug Gillies
I've only been at it one day, dear

MaureenSharib
In one day what have you found? I expect your results to be immediate.

David Gillies
In what way? Titles?

MaureenSharib
In the descriptions linked to titles. Do you see the possibilities in checking this before every call into a company?

David Gillies
I have not had to use it yet. I'm working through list of completed research

Recruiting Animal
Doug was the student in the story, wasn't he? Nyuk, nyuk.

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Steve Levy
Companies are morphing titles because employment branding experts are telling them to be more creative.

Titles: Personnel > Chief People Officer > Strategic Biz Partner > Thought Leader. What's next, Chief Cankle Officer?

Sara Klein
Corp recruiters like me ARE getting the message that we have to morph titles to create more interest

Jason Davis
I don't agree with Doug Gillies when he says that the problem with general titles is that the best won't apply with that ambiguity. Standard titles are fine - especially in business & tech consulting. People understand them. Don't need ninja, guru, etc

Andy Von Kennel
Coming from ad agency land where title creation is king, I can say that it is not that helpful --- fun for sure but it causes confusion

Kleboe
So true. Even people in their own company get confused.

Jason Lee Overbey
One trick is to put on client role hat "Who would I talk with if I needed classification of rock masses performed using Q or GSI?"

Chris Fleek
Morphing provides orgs with flexibility in hiring - can change direction based on strength of candidate pool.

Recruiting Animal
Huh?

Kleboe
Does some of the frustration around morphing titles come from sourcers being too broad in their focus? Specialising helps.

Jason Lee Overbey
Regardless of how companies try to manage online we remain effective because we pick up the phone first!

Recruiting Animal
That must be an incomplete thought because I'm not sure what you mean.

MaureenSharib
Does anyone think companies are morphing titles to evade online detection?

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Steve Levy
Morphing a title and not changing the job content is called bait and switch. However, on job pages, if the description is bland, perfuming the pig won't make it date material.

David Gillies
I have a multi Billion $$ oil and gas corp and HR made the job posting by cut and paste. Hiring managers laughed but didn't change it

Kleboe
That's when you call the hiring manager and get to the heart of the job

Steve Levy
Toughest thing: Getting hiring manager to describe for u the specific problems to be solved and the performance expectations

David Gillies
Company has serious retribution for recruiters calling around HR. Made it clear not to call. Did anyway and hiring mananger raked me over the coals. HR promised that they would curb her phone traffic and would ban any recruiters who called.

Kleboe
Tough one. Perhaps new clients are required.

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David Gillies
When you "stab" in a company, what is the most effective department for you?

MaureenSharib
Accts Receivable. They talk to EVERYONE if they think they might get paid. Next in line: MailRoom

David Gillies
I think you need to avoid groups that are too educated

MaureenSharib
Or too paranoid. IT tends to hold the paranoid types

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Sara Klein
It is tough though when people are titled "Systems Engineer" which could mean many things. I need to find a design architect not just a server admin type.

MaureenSharib
The specific type of systems engr would be spelled out on a company's website sometimes - no?

Recruiting Animal

Still beating that horse, dear?

Steve Levy
The challenge is to source based on performance requirements rather than keywords

David Gillies
Going after "performance expectations" vs. key words

Kleboe
Steve Levy, Bingo - comes from knowing your specialism and not being too broad

MaureenSharib
Please explain "performance requirements"

Steve Levy
The specific type of systems engr is based upon the products being developed

MaureenSharib
So they'd be unique to each company.

Steve Levy
Unique up to a point... #Ruby development is Ruby development but there are design nuances

Sara Klein
Most of the time I am going after folks that cant be from large corps. They need to be at design co. small VARs

MaureenSharib
I love doing small companies. EASY pickings in my opinion. Their night-time phone systems are easy to pull down.

Steve Levy
Small companies are more prone to telling you the names of all their employees under About Us

Sara Klein
Not the tech VARS. Did have luck calling through phone at night for 1. Need to do that again, then cross reference with LI

David Gillies
If I find a company with their employees listed, I alway cut and paste. The information might not stay up on the site

MaureenSharib
You'd better be checking that cut and paste. I rarely don't find discrepancies.

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Kleboe
What is the best way to find titles in common

MaureenSharib
I always ask the recruiter (or Hiring Manager) "What OTHER titles MIGHT these people carry?"

Kleboe
So the best way to find titles at different companies is that companies job pages. Correct?

MaureenSharib
Pretty much BUT as you pointed out LinkedIN can give you a good bird's eye view as well.

Steve Levy
also look around the net - cut and paste a line from the job description and see if alternate titles come up

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Chris Fleek
Do you find better results sourcing from big cos or small ones? Or all same in the end?

MaureenSharib
I get faster not better)results at small companies. Personal preference.

Chris Fleek
Small companies do produce faster results. I also think more "up and comers" are found at small orgs

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MaureenSharib
Bye everyone - see you next week!