MagicMethod Phone Sourcing (RUSING!) Classroom Chat Log Tuesday, August 19, 2008

[Maureen Sharib]

Best Remark of the Day
"To me rusing is a covert act. The ruser has to be purposfully misrepresenting themselves or their motives. They are lying to achieve something that could usually be gottten honestly if they did the work.” ~ Leo Mc Kiernan

Maureen Sharib
Our MagicMethod network just passed 600 members!

Maureen Sharib
Remember - TODAY is the rusing discussion in the noon classroom chat! Don't be shy - we want to hear what you're thinking! It's going to be WILD. People lose their minds...uhhhh...I mean "composures" over this stuff! They get their panties all bunched up and break out in lathers!

Maureen Sharib
Ruse: Web definition - a deceptive maneuver (especially to avoid capture). Also spelled rouse and rouge as in, “I’m so ashamed by my lying that my cheeks turned rouge.” Word raises hackles for a lot of people. Some say it’s illegal to misrepresent yourself to gain any kind of information (this theory hangs on the unfair trade practices rulings), some say it’s not illegal but acceptable practice in love and war and recruiting tactics. Subject usually raises a firestorm of controversy resulting in name calling and mud slinging. The object of discussing rusing here is to point out that a good researcher does not have to ruse, it’s a choice each one makes on the front line of battle.A good researcher understands how to elicit information by ASKing the right questions in the right manner.
CONTROVERSIAL: Rusing may be a right-of-passage, in so much that sourcers who began their careers “rusing”, that is, lying to get information, were made so uncomfortable in their psyches by it that they’re challenged to increase their skill sets to the point where it’s no longer necessary to ruse.

Maureen Sharib
Has everyone done their homework? You are STRONGLY ADVISED to read the Blog Post in the Blog Posts section here on the site titled "Rusing - The Timeless Argument" along with the links that the post points to. That is today’s discussion subject!

Recruiting Animal
I'm here early.

Maureen Sharib
Have you done your homework?

Recruiting Animal
Hey, I'm on break till noon.

Maureen Sharib
What's the music today?

Recruiting Animal
Maureen, Don't You Weep

Maureen Sharib
Huh?

Recruiting Animal
If I could I surely would,
Stand on the rock where Moses stood.
All the rusers get drownded.
Oh Maureen, don't you weep.

Maureen Sharib
Nice.

Recruiting Animal
Oh Maureen, don't you weep no more.
Oh Maureen, don't you weep no more.
All your foes are confounded.
Oh Maureen, don't you weep.

Maureen Sharib
Can anyone describe what your definition of “rusing” is?

John S. Kennedy
An attempt to obtain value through fraudulent methods.

Maureen Sharib
Good. Want to elaborate? (I'm not necessarily agreeing w/ you John - I'm interested (and respect!) your view though!)

Arlene Hernandez
I feel very passionate about my job and what it is I do as a name sourcer. I get offended when folks out there talk their CRAP about what we do, especially if they are not a name sourcer.

John S. Kennedy
Yes ... if you are misrepresenting yourself in order to obtain value without return compensation that is a ruse.

Arlene Hernandez
As a name sourcer we have to do what we have to do to get the info for our clients

Maureen Sharib
"misrepresenting yourself" Good. What would that be John?

JSK
Wouldn't a street criminal say the same thing though, Arlene?

Ryan Haire
Rusing: The equivalent to religion or politics in the recruiting spectrum---

Kenny Nash
Or government. There are several different classifications of rusing...

Leo Mc Kiernan
Arlene are you saying the ends justify the means....especially when they benefit US?

Kenny Nash
is allowing the person you contact an opportunity to assume a ruse?

Arlene Hernandez
Yes, strongly. No kenneth. the opportunities I INTRODUCE are real

Leo Mc Kiernan
Isn't rusing just a crutch for sourcers who don't want to do the homework required to do the job better?

JSK
That being the case, why not go into something even MORE lucrative, like securities fraud or something of the sort?

Kenneth Nash
Fraud is illegal

Maureen Sharib
Okay, because this is going to get so excited, let's try to put the person's name that we are responding to first in our response.

Recruiting Animal
Maureen the custom now is to write @name

Arlene Hernandez
John is stuck on fraud

Kenneth Nash
why make such statements..

Arlene Hernandez
Ruse is not Fraud

JSK
Well, that's what I'm curious about ... how is rusing not fraudulent?

Kenneth Nash
what do you mean Leo...

Maureen Sharib
Animal, are you going to be able to keep up w/ all this?

Recruiting Animal
Oh, Maureen, don't you weep no more. Oh, Maureen, don't you weep no more. All your fears are ungrounded. Oh, Maureen, don't you weep.

Leo Mc Kiernan
Arlene, then when is a lie not a lie?

Kenneth Nash
if I say that I have information to send to someone... you may assume it might be sales related. if you assume it sales, and it is a recruiting spec... then there is no ruse

Arlene Hernandez
Because, I am not asking them for theri SS#'s or banking account #'s or anything of that nature to get that type of info

Leo Mc Kiernan
Obfuscation is not rusing.

John S. Kennedy
You are asking them for other things of value.

Ryan Haire
I agree with Leo--- The more info you can go in with-- it makes your job infinitely easier

Arlene Hernandez
No

Maureen Sharib
“Things of value” - define John

Arlene Hernandez
This is what i say to a potential candidate

Kenneth Nash
leo so why would rusing be a crutch for not gathering more info... for some researchers john

John S. Kennedy
I understand the going rate for a viable name is $50/pop ...

Maureen Sharib
Animal, don't you worry, I won't weep.

John S. Kennedy
If you're misrepresenting yourself to obtain that value how is that not fraud?

Geri Kleeman
are we talking about how to ruse or the ethics of it all?

Kenneth Nash
which would you prefer Geri?

Jeff Spence
good question Geri

Leo Mc Kiernan
Because if you did your research and preparation, you should be able to ask for a specific person by name and the majority of the time you will be put thru

Arlene Hernandez
right Leo

Geri Kleeman
not the ethics conversation! lol

Maureen Sharib
Oh Yes Geri - we're in trouble now!

Kenneth Nash
how did you get the name Leo? If not by research and prep?

Maureen Sharib
And your point John? We don't have a right to that $50/pop? (If'n we can get the name?)

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[Simon Townsend]

Great chat, I'm sorry I couldn't make it live.
In regard the legalities of rusing there is potentially a flip side which I haven’t seen raised and I would love to know what you all think.

People often speak of the rights of the company; "Some say it’s illegal to misrepresent yourself to gain any kind of information (this theory hangs on the unfair trade practices rulings)..." (Maureen), but you can also argue the case for the candidate.

If the “Inquisitor” (love it), as an extension of the company, does not allow a Sourcer access to people within the business it could be claimed that these people are being discriminated against. It could even be argued that this is an extension of free speech, and the freedom for people to listen. In this argument the company could be held liable for restricting the freedoms of their workers.

Now, I’m no lawyer and the legalities would differ greatly country to country and, I assume, state to state. I may well be far from the mark on the feasibility of this but I’d love to see people looking at it from the other side.

I can imagine a time in the not too distant future where rusing would be counter-productive to a search. Sourcers would call a company and proudly proclaim; “Hi, I’m calling to offer an opportunity to your staff in the procurement division, who’s the best person for me to speak to to disseminate the details of my role within your organisation?”

Until then I’ll be tracking online footsteps and questioning around the edges.

[bill josephson]

Excellent chat discussion. Sourcing IMO is deception. Those bothered by it shouldn't do it. Legality of sourcing/recruiting into companies discussion would be of great interest to me.

Bill Josephson

[Sheree Ruland]

Wow, excellent discussion and interesting opinions. Maureen - right on! I will say I'm surprised that it was Barbara who once did acid and not Recruiting Animal.....JMHO! ;-)

Sheree
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www.linkedin.com/in/sheree